| Member |
 Discussion Topic  |
|
|
raptor5618
 Junior Member
89 Posts
Olyphant, Pa
USA
Honda
cbr600f4i
|
 Posted - 05/27/2009 : 11:57 PM
|
On several posts I have read it seems to be presented as common knowledge that leather will help you in the heat on a long ride because it keeps you from getting dehydrated.
While it certainly will keep your sweat from evaporating as easily as a mesh jacket I think that some of the logic used to come to this conclusion is flawed.
Sweat is used as a means to cool our bodies. If it evaporates and our body cools we produce less sweat. Conversely, if it does not evaporate we produce even more because our body will slowly overheat. I think if keeping us from dehydrating were a good reason for choosing leather then I think we would be even better off wearing latex under our clothes.
Also because sweat is how we keep from overheating I think that preventing it from evaporating poses a danger that might be worse, heat exhaustion.
I am not arguing against leather clothing when riding at all. What I am questioning is this common reason posed for wearing leather. I think leather protects our bodies from a more immediate danger so I think its value is well reasoned. We can stop for a drink or to get into a cool place when we feel dehydration or overheating coming upon us. We cannot say that we feel an accident is about to happen so I will put my leathers on.
|
|
|
rayg50
Advanced Member
858 Posts
[Mentor]
NYC, NY
USA
Honda
Shadow Spirit 750DC
|
Posted - 05/28/2009 : 6:05 AM
|
raptor5618, I cannot argue for or against leather use in hot weather since I personally do not know. This will be my first riding season so I will find out. 
What I will say is that if you look at middle east "desert dwellers" they wear quite a bit of layered clothing. I believe they do not want evaporation to occur at a rapid rate and have always believed they are going for a thermos type of effect. It may be hot under all that clothing but not as hot as outside of it. If this practice has not been abandoned after centuries of use, there must be something to it.
I don't know if leathers would have the same effect so this is not an argument for them. This is just an observation that there may be some basis for the belief.
Ray
|
 |
|
|
alblancher
Senior Member
481 Posts
slidell, LA
USA
Yamaha
Roadliner
|
Posted - 05/28/2009 : 6:30 AM
|
Raptor,
Being cool and being dehydrated are two different arguements. Wind passing over your body at speed causes the sweat to evaporate more rapidly, cooling you quicker but also drying you out quicker. You need to drink more water to stay hydrated. Most experienced riders will slow this evaporation by wearing some type of wind barrier.
|
|
|
|
raptor5618
Junior Member
89 Posts
Olyphant, Pa
USA
Honda
cbr600f4i
|
Posted - 05/28/2009 : 9:16 AM
|
rayg50 they wear those clothes for one of the reasons you suggest which is that it insulates them from the outside temperature it also keeps the sun from striking their skin directly. After doing some research it is important that those garments are loose.
I am not arguing for or against leather use when it is hot. I am just trying to understand one of the reasons used to suggest that it should be used. Like I said in my first post, its primary reason is justification enough.
alblancher my very question is why do you believe that the rapid evaporation of sweat would dry you out quicker? I have worked out most of my life and have done many bicycle rides in excess of 75 miles including a few of 200 miles so I have learned quite a bit about staying hydrated, getting over heated, and what happens when you do not pay attention to either.
I would never think of running or cycling in warm weather in clothing that does not wick the moisture away from my skin, allowing for it to evaporate quickly and cool me down. Granted I am also generating a bit more heat and moving at a slower speed but I think the combined effect would balance out. In either case, we are all limited to how much liquid we can absorb in a given period of time.
We sweat in response to the body sensing it is getting too hot. So if leather stops evaporation it also lessens the ability of the body to cool itself. The body responds by producing more sweat. I do not think that the body reduces the production of sweat because it senses sweat on the skin so my thoughts are that leather will keep you warmer because of less evaporation of your sweat so you body will respond by producing more sweat. Whereas a mesh suit will keep the body cooler by allowing for more evaporation and therefore a cooler body which will produce less sweat.
There is a lot of common knowledge floating around that really is not based on any real analysis. I also see lots of experienced riders who ride in tee shirt and shorts with a skin head and lord knows I am not about to follow their example. How much water you should drink in a day is one perfect example (it has no science to back it up).
No please understand, I am not arguing against leather at all. When I cycle I wear a helmet. It has lots of vents but it would be cooler without it. I do not think that trade off is worth it.
All I am talking about is how valid is the argument that leather will keep you from becoming dehydrated quicker.
|
|
|
|
rkfire
Advanced Member
673 Posts
Stratford, CT
USA
Suzuki
Bandit
Peer Review:
Blocked
|
Posted - 05/28/2009 : 10:05 AM
|
I've never really heard anyone say leather is somehow cooler in hot weather than other gear. I wear a leather jacket whenever possible but find it too hot in the heat of a warm summer day. They do make perforated leather, which I hear works pretty well for cooling as well as protection. I found them out of my price range though.
On the other hand, I find it also depends on the type of ride I might take. In a ride out in the rural, tree shaded, roads with almost no traffic lights and few stop signs, I'm continously moving and might wear a leather jacket even on hot days comfortably. |
|
|
|
raptor5618
Junior Member
89 Posts
Olyphant, Pa
USA
Honda
cbr600f4i
|
Posted - 05/28/2009 : 12:07 PM
|
I was saying that one of the justifications for wearing leather was that they prevented you from drying out by keeping the wind off of you. I was not saying it is cooler. I have a perforated leather jacket and it is pretty cool when moving up to a pretty high temp. Stopped it is hot.
I also have a mesh jacket that is pretty cool but boy do I feel a bit naked when I wear it which was only a few times when the ride was short and at slower speeds or lots of stop and go in very hot weather. |
|
|
|
alblancher
Senior Member
481 Posts
slidell, LA
USA
Yamaha
Roadliner
|
Posted - 05/28/2009 : 12:55 PM
|
Raptor,
For me to continue this counter-intuitive discussion I would have to look for some kind of study indicating that preventing the rapid dissipation of sweat/moisture reduces the loss of fluids in the body. The only way I can look at it is if you hang a wet towel outside to dry. Just letting the towel hang there in the sun the towel drys in a reasonable amount of time. Put a fan on that same towel hanging in the sun and it drys in half the time. Replace the towel with your skin. Does rapidly drying skin produce more sweat (reducing total amount of fluids available to your body) than moderately damp skin? I know that if you place the bottom of that towel in bucket of water so that it acts as a wick, the fan blown towel will empty the bucket of water quicker. |
|
|
|
RichC10
Standard Member
127 Posts
Summerville, SC
USA
Kawasaki
EX500
|
Posted - 05/28/2009 : 1:26 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by raptor5618
I was saying that one of the justifications for wearing leather was that they prevented you from drying out by keeping the wind off of you. I was not saying it is cooler.
I think you may be missing the important point. Sweat is how our bodies maintain a healthy temp. If leather does in fact prevent some evaporation, you are most likely getting overheated, that can be deadly. Drink plenty of fluids and keep sweating, you will have no problems. When you stop the sweating or don't get enough fluids, it is a problem either way. |
|
|
|
raptor5618
Junior Member
89 Posts
Olyphant, Pa
USA
Honda
cbr600f4i
|
Posted - 05/28/2009 : 1:48 PM
|
alblancher what you say is true but our sweat is not a product of osmosis. Now if you are riding with a plant on your bike I think it would be a good idea to keep the plant in full leather. However, I will look for a study of the type you mention. Not sure I will find any and the few sites I looked at provided merely conjecture in my view. I think some evaporation of moisture from our body occurs as a result of wind but I have to believe that the amount is negligible. As an example I will mention how our skin is dry in winter due to low humidity so the skin on the surface dries out unless you protect it with some type of barrier to keep the water it absorbs during a show for example. But that is just at the surface.
I am not sure that you (RichC10) speaking to me, but since you quoted me I assume you were. I do not think I missed the point, especially since it was my original point we are discussing here. I think it does not take a study to say that wearing leathers will result in far less evaporation of sweat than say no jacket or a mesh jacket would.
So my point was that for that very reason wearing leather will actually dehydrate you quicker than mesh or nothing at all which goes against experienced rider reasoning. I am well aware that if you are hot and you stop sweating, you better seek help pretty quick.
However, unless you are riding in a way that requires a lot of physical effort, I think that when you are moving overheating is something to consider but is not an overriding issue when deciding to wear leather or not. I think everyone knows it is hotter in leather or at least feels hotter and I was not questioning that.
All I am asking is for reasoning as to why leather would lessen the loss of liquid from your body as is commonly claimed. I only mentioned the body temperature issue as a point that to me suggests that just the opposite would be true because as you heat up, you sweat more and as you cool down you sweat less.
|
|
|
|
CrtrTylr
Junior Member
58 Posts
Brawley, Ca
USA
Harley-Davidson
Road King
|
Posted - 05/28/2009 : 4:51 PM
|
I ride in 110* plus a lot. What worked well for me last summer is a mesh jacket that will breathe, full face helmet and breathable gloves. In 1 1/2 hour rides, through the desert to the mountains in those temps wearing only a t-shirt, I have gotten so dehydrated and burnt out every time I tried it. It only has to be in the 90's to do that to me, witnessed by a 1 hour quick lunch ride at freeway speeds a month ago, where it wasn't really even hot yet, soaked it out of me. Learned very quickly a year ago that the mesh worked best to keep air moving through.
As far as leather, that is all I wear in normal weather, and even own a 2nd breathable leather jacket, but would die in it if I tried to wear it down here in the summer. Way too hot and not enough circulation.
This year we have been messing with a hydration vest over a long sleeve shirt. Not the ideal protection, but seemed to work well this past weekend on a 3 1/2 jaunt that it took to get to cooler climates through the desert each direction as we were riding in the heat of the day. Two of us tried them for the first time and can say they worked well.
|
|
|
|
gymnast
Moderator
2807 Posts
[Mentor]
Meridian, Idaho
USA
Harley-Davidson
Sportster Sport
|
Posted - 05/28/2009 : 5:10 PM
|
Raptor, it used to be a common and sometimes deadly practice for high school and collegiate wrestlers to put on a rain suit or "rubber sweatsuit" and sit in a sauna in order to loose weight through the water loss of sweating. A number of cases of heat stroke and and deaths have caused the practice to be outlawed.
When I raced, I wore black horsehide leathers as well as a jersey with a number and during the very humid summers in the south central US when the humidity was 95% and the air temperature on the track was well over a hundred, conditions for the riders on the starting line could be very stressful. I was at a race in Western Kentucky in the late 60s or early 70s when 2 riders passed out on the starting line when the riders were held on the line while a fouled plug was changed in one of the bikes. The riders died.
Once moving, there was usually enough air getting into the leathers to evaporate the sweat or the leathers had become wet enough while standing and pouting water on them or from the sweat to cool through evaporation, and it was less of a problem.
These day, in warm conditions, I prefer my Vanson "Perf" leathers, In hot conditions even the perforated leather can be uncomfortable while not moving however they are fine once underway. Wearing a wet sweatshirt or tee shirt under the perfs "is like having air conditioning" when it is really hot. When the temps get into the upper 80s, I find the armored mesh to be a comfort god send.
Key, no matter what you wear, when it is hot, hydrate, hydrate, hydrate. If it is an all day ride hydrate with fluids that maintain electrolyte balance. Think in terms of quarts, not sips. |
|
|
|
raptor5618
Junior Member
89 Posts
Olyphant, Pa
USA
Honda
cbr600f4i
|
Posted - 06/08/2009 : 2:43 PM
|
gymnast I totally get the hydration part. I wear a perforated leather jacket when ever I can bear to wear it and when it is too hot I use the mesh jacket.
Have you tried wearing a cool-max or something like that under you jacket. The interesting thing about cool-max is that it keeps the moisture away from your skin and it dries very quickly, but in one study I read about it does nothing to keep you cooler while it does give you the sense that you are cooler.
I use cool-max or similar for everything where I am active even snow skiing and it certainly seems better than wet cotton shirts. |
|
|
|
House_of_Dexter
Standard Member
167 Posts
Richardson, Tx
USA
Kawasaki
2007 Ex-500
Peer Review:
Blocked
|
Posted - 09/21/2009 : 8:55 AM
|
| I've now gone 2 seasons in the heat 105F+ Texas Summer in stop and go traffic in Dallas. The first summer was with Joe Rocket Black Textile. This summer I wore perforated Leather. My ability to survive was 2 fold. First I hydrated wearing a camelback. On weather 95F+ I wore an evaporation vest under my armor. The evaporation vest is the most important equipment I wear during these conditions. |
|
|
| |
Discussion Topic |
|
|
Most Recent Posts
|
Activity History
|
Safety Tips
Leather and hydration