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D R
Advanced Member
728 Posts
[Mentor]
Northern, Virginia
USA
BMW
R1200RT
Peer Review:
1
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 Posted - 10/19/2009 : 10:57 PM
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In the movie "We Were Soldiers" (starring Mel Gibson and Madeline Stowe), there is a very poignant scene which occurs about halfway through the movie. LTC Moore and his troops have just been engaged by enemy forces and the casualty notifications have begun arriving back home (telegraphs which the Pentagon was giving to taxi cab drivers to deliver). Madeline Stowe (LTC Moore's wife) has just finished with hand delivering the first round of notifications.
A short time later, she hears someone at the front door, looks out the window and is mortified to see a yellow taxi cab by the curb. With trepidation, she makes her way to the door, opening it too see a cab driver standing there, telegram in hand. The cab driver asks her "Mrs. Moore? LTC Moores wife?" Chokingly, afraid of what she thinks she is about to hear, she states "Yes?" The cab driver then says to her, "I was wondering if you can help me find an address?" After a moment of stunned silence, she retorts with mixed anger and relief, "DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS!?! DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT YOU JUST DID TO ME!?!"
Today was a beautiful day. The sky was a brilliant blue - not a cloud in the sky. The temperature started in the upper 30s but would climb into the low 60s before the day was over. There was a good steady breeze blowing out of the north, but it would subside by mid-day. For the last several years, I'd been hoping for a day of good fall weather, which would coincide with a day off from work so I could take some good fall foliage pictures. Today was that day!
I headed out around 10:00 AM for what would be a thoroughly enjoyable day with quite a few good photo opportunities,
....until those few seconds of "sheer terror" during the return leg of the trip.
As you can see in the picture below, it was a divided, two-lane road. The roads were clear and visibility was good. The posted speed limit was 60 mph and, as you can tell from the picture, traffic was right at or just below the posted speed limit. I had noticed the white pick-up truck down the road, stopped on the cross-over, waiting for an opening. With traffic out in front of me, I was concerned with how visible I might be to the driver of the pick-up.
As this next picture shows (on automatic, the camera takes a picture every few seconds), the Sheriff's patrol car virtually masks me from the pick-up. I've already begun slowing, covering the clutch and front brake and moved my right foot forward so the ball of my foot is over the brake pedal. I also started scanning for escape routes
The Sheriff's car has passed and about the time the red car is passing in front, the pick-up suddenly accelerates rapidly into the roadway, turning to go in the same direction I'm traveling!!!
OH ****!!! The driver has failed to see me!!! Time to initiate evasive action!!! Even though I was already reducing speed, I now come completely off the throttle, pull in the clutch, on both brakes and head for my escape route!!! As you can see from the lean angle and trajectory in the picture, I'm aiming for the shoulder. As I mentioned above, my camera takes a picture every few seconds, but it didn't catch the moment the pick-up truck began to move. By the time this picture was taken (notice how sharply the front wheels are turned), it had now become apparent the driver had in fact seen me and was turning into the left most lane. However, as things began to unfold, I couldn't assume he had.
If I had had the opportunity to talk to him, I would have said, "DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT YOU JUST DID TO ME!?! "
Would an extra second or two have delayed you that much while I passed safely in front of you? While I did manage to end up in the narrow space between the white line and the gravel shoulder, and you thought you were being safe, your lack of awareness forced me to take action for my own safety, which in and of itself needlessly elevated my risk of a crash!!!
(I would venture to guess he doesnt ride a motorcycle. If he does, then he needs to work on his safety awareness and translate that over into driving his pick-up.)
All told, everything was over and done in the space of a few seconds and no one was injured. The lesson to take away from this is situational awareness. In hindsight, the only thing I should have done differently is, I should have slowed more as I approached the intersection. If he had not seen me and turned into the right lane, instead of the left lane, I most likely still would have been okay going to the shoulder. However, had he gone straight across, its hard to say what the outcome would have been.
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Edited by - D R on 10/19/2009 11:03 PM |
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Mikeydude
 Advanced Member
577 Posts
[Mentor]
Ft. Worth, Texas
USA
Harley-Davidson
03 FXD Super Glide
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Posted - 10/19/2009 : 11:41 PM
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| Maybe the left lane would have been a better choice? He would have seen you sooner, or at least you would have been visable sooner. In the left lane, the patrol car is NOT blocking you... It would also have hiven you the right lane as an escape route, and bought you more time. |
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Axiom2000
Moderator
973 Posts
[Mentor]
Georgetown, Delaware
USA
BMW
R1200RT/ R1200C
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Posted - 10/20/2009 : 4:31 AM
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DR,
Great post and good pictures. There is a lot to think about here and your analysis of what happened, what you did, your judgement and actions all represent good lessons. Just another example of how important situational awareness is. We can all speculate about what you did and how different courses of action may have been better or worse, good conversation for sure. At the end of the day, you are still with us because you were paying attention, perceived a threat in time to take action and avoided a deadly situation. On a beautiful day like that it speaks well of your riding discipline. Good stuff. |
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D R
Advanced Member
728 Posts
[Mentor]
Northern, Virginia
USA
BMW
R1200RT
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Posted - 10/20/2009 : 11:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mikeydude
Maybe the left lane would have been a better choice? He would have seen you sooner, or at least you would have been visible sooner. In the left lane, the patrol car is NOT blocking you... It would also have given you the right lane as an escape route, and bought you more time.
That too would have been a viable option. In retrospect however, in the few seconds to "SEE" (MSF-Search, Evaluate, Execute) or "OODA" (Military - Observe, Orient, Decide, Act) that option didn't go through my mind -- at least not on this particular occasion. |
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haithabu
Standard Member
235 Posts
Canmore, Alberta
Canada
Honda
Varadero
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Posted - 10/20/2009 : 11:54 AM
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| Your reaction was similar to what mine would have been. The biggest risk, as you mentioned, was if he had gone straight through. I don't know what you could have done to guard against that other than to slow way down. I have done that once or twice. But that choice carries risks of its own on a four lane highway. |
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Mikeydude
Advanced Member
577 Posts
[Mentor]
Ft. Worth, Texas
USA
Harley-Davidson
03 FXD Super Glide
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Posted - 10/20/2009 : 1:41 PM
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Hey DR... I agree with everyone that you did good in observing things before they became nasty. What I meant with my 1st post was not that you could've moved over to the laft lane, but rather should have been in the left lane to begin with. More distance from turners to your right, and more visability to people on the left...
:) |
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Night Train
Moderator
1335 Posts
[Mentor]
Sydney, Nova Scotia
Canada
Harley-Davidson
03 Electra Glide Std
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Posted - 10/20/2009 : 2:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mikeydude
Hey DR... I agree with everyone that you did good in observing things before they became nasty. What I meant with my 1st post was not that you could've moved over to the laft lane, but rather should have been in the left lane to begin with. More distance from turners to your right, and more visability to people on the left...
:)
That would depend on the area really. Most roads similar to this in my area are signed "keep right except to pass". Thereby negating utilizing the left lane as a main travel lane. |
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WSMeders
Standard Member
105 Posts
OH, DC
USA
Yamaha
FZR600
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Posted - 10/20/2009 : 5:08 PM
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It's amazing how much those images help to convey the lesson learned!
(I plan to rig something similar up for my bike over the winter)
I have been in a few similar situations, including one where a woman in a van came flying up a hill (out of view), through a stop sign, right into a 70 mph state route (50 through WV). At which point she evidently woke up and slammed on the brakes... stopping RIGHT in the middle of the highway!
I was about a 1/4 mile away and had plenty of time to check all escapes. Not wanting to risk going in front or behind her (who knew her next move), and having checked my rear, I decided to hit the brakes, coming down to about 20 mph and ~100 yards from her before she stopped staring at me with her jaw dropped and sped off out of the way. (I think I could see the meth scars)
I was obviously very lucky: she didn't do the same thing about 10 seconds later, the traffic was very light, and all the riding conditions were favorable. In that situation, I trust that braking was the appropriate response.
In your situation, I wonder though. You seem to have immediately assumed the truck was not going to see you, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but perhaps making yourself visible would have been an option. (I've even stood up on my pegs before) The other thing that came to mind was what if the truck would have been going straight, crossing your path? In that situation, unless you came to a near complete stop, you would have surely had a mess on your hands. In similar situations I've tailed the car in front of me, staying to the left, until the threat has passed.
I wasn't there, and I'm sure there were conditions not mentioned, or that I am missing, but the important thing is that you are here to convey this lesson.
Thank you.
PS - Is that Route 7 outside of Leesburg? I'm in the area, and know a few good roads in the area? Wanna share favorite roads?
Here is one of mine:
http://www.openroadjourney.com/load...asp?rid=3026 |
Edited by - WSMeders on 10/20/2009 5:13 PM |
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D R
Advanced Member
728 Posts
[Mentor]
Northern, Virginia
USA
BMW
R1200RT
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Posted - 10/20/2009 : 7:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by WSMeders
PS - Is that Route 7 outside of Leesburg?
That's Route 15 North, out of Culpeper, heading towards Opal (fairly close to Opal).
The day's circuit had me head west out of Fredericksburg on Route 17 towards Warrenton. From Warrenton I took Route 211 to Skyline Drive then south to Route 33 East. From there I headed to Route 29 North towards Culpeper where I picked up Route 15, then on to Route 17 again and back east towards home. |
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Tecpatl4
Senior Member
381 Posts
Columbus, OH
USA
Triumph
Bonneville
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Posted - 10/21/2009 : 6:28 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mikeydude
Maybe the left lane would have been a better choice? He would have seen you sooner,
Maybe he did see you. I see people do this all the time. Because you were in the right lane, perhaps he felt it was ok to pull out into the left lane. If you had been in the left lane, he may have pulled out and moved to the right to accelerate. I drive on a road like this every day, and have this happen at least 2 or 3 times a week, if not more often. I'm not condoning this, just pointing out that around here it is common. |
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Mikeydude
Advanced Member
577 Posts
[Mentor]
Ft. Worth, Texas
USA
Harley-Davidson
03 FXD Super Glide
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Posted - 10/21/2009 : 4:17 PM
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Well, my point really was that if you're in the left lane, you're not visually blocked by the front vehicle as shown in the second picture. and you can see them better. I see this all the time too, and I prefer to ride on the left. The encroachers from the right (driveways, side streets, etc...) tend to go into the right lane, and I can usually ride in a position where I have a vehicle blocking for me on the right. Also being in the left lane puts me in a position where if there are any trees or the like blocking someone on the right, I'm further out and can be seen sooner by them. And anyone on the left can see me a lot better, as well as I have room to move right, if I need to.
I understand that we all have our tactics, and if this is flawed on my part I'd like to understand it better. |
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vprahl
Junior Member
94 Posts
The Woodlands, tx
USA
(None)
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Posted - 10/21/2009 : 4:29 PM
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| Excellent pics. It makes me wish we had more posts like this. Regarding options and conditions, I was wondering what the traffic behind you was like. It could have a major effect on decisions. |
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scottrnelson
Advanced Member
5258 Posts
[Mentor]
Pleasanton, CA
USA
KTM
990 Adv, ST2, XR650L
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Posted - 10/21/2009 : 6:29 PM
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Now that this has been heavily analyzed, I'll explain what I would do in that situation.
If I saw that truck there and thought that there was any chance they might be pulling out into me, I would get into a position where they could see my headlight, then I would switch from low beam to high beam. In the case of the first photo it would be visible between the two cars (but the driver might be concentrating on the Sheriff cruiser and not see it). Once the car ahead has passed the truck I would flash the high beam a couple of times, then leave it on and move back and forth across my lane a couple of times to be more visible.
This is my standard behavior anytime I think anybody might be invading my space. I'll even flash the high beams on my car (but not change my path) in the same situation and had to do that earlier today.
Whenever someone can potentially invade my space I first do what I can to get noticed, but also prepare to slow down and to get out of the way in case I'm not convinced that I'm safe from them.
The only issue I then have is to make sure I'm not ignoring another threat while avoiding that one (which still happens once in a while). |
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DataDan
Standard Member
199 Posts
[Mentor]
Central Coast, CA
USA
Honda
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Posted - 10/21/2009 : 9:46 PM
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quote:
Mikeydude wrote: ...if you're in the left lane, you're not visually blocked by the front vehicle as shown in the second picture. and you can see them better.
quote:
scottrnelson wrote: If I saw that truck there and thought that there was any chance they might be pulling out into me, I would get into a position where they could see my headlight, then I would switch from low beam to high beam. In the case of the first photo it would be visible between the two cars...
About a somewhat different situation Hurt recommended that the rider position himself "so that he could see and be seen. The strategic position is important to insure a clear view of prospective challenges of right-of-way and high conspicuity should increase the likelihood of being seen." I think the advice applies equally well here.
The "see" part is easy here, but "be seen" is not. I'm with Mikeydude: get into the left lane to remove yourself from the visual clutter of the two cars. Following distance helps also in that regard. From a position in the right lane, the high beam would indeed help the driver to see you, but when you can see the situation developing a few hundred yards out, you have enough time to position yourself to be seen as a distinct threat. |
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WSMeders
Standard Member
105 Posts
OH, DC
USA
Yamaha
FZR600
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Posted - 10/21/2009 : 11:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by scottrnelson
If I saw that truck there and thought that there was any chance they might be pulling out into me, I would get into a position where they could see my headlight, then I would switch from low beam to high beam.
I am always worried the driver is going to take that for a "go ahead" and pull out in front of me. It's something I think about A LOT when I'm trying to get a drivers attention, or at least make myself visible, like at a 4-way stop with the car opposite me planning to make a left. Is my flashing them interpreted as a "Hello!" or a "you go first"?
Any thoughts on that type of communication between the "us" and "them?" |
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Night Train
Moderator
1335 Posts
[Mentor]
Sydney, Nova Scotia
Canada
Harley-Davidson
03 Electra Glide Std
Peer Review:
1
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Posted - 10/22/2009 : 6:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mikeydude
Well, my point really was that if you're in the left lane, you're not visually blocked by the front vehicle as shown in the second picture. and you can see them better. I see this all the time too, and I prefer to ride on the left. The encroachers from the right (driveways, side streets, etc...) tend to go into the right lane, and I can usually ride in a position where I have a vehicle blocking for me on the right. Also being in the left lane puts me in a position where if there are any trees or the like blocking someone on the right, I'm further out and can be seen sooner by them. And anyone on the left can see me a lot better, as well as I have room to move right, if I need to.
I understand that we all have our tactics, and if this is flawed on my part I'd like to understand it better.
I don't disagree with you, I was simply stating that in some areas you can be ticketed for driving in the left lane if you are not performing a passing maneuver. In this instance moving to the left lane would have provided a better opportunity for the truck to see the OP and would also provide the right lane as an additional escape route.
To be honest, I felt the OP handled this situation quite properly. He was aware of his surroundings and reacted accordingly. What surprised me was the degree of importance he placed on a situation that I would consider a normal occurance. In this situation I would have expected the truck to have cut out across both lanes without seeing me and I would have prepared for that. If he did indeed perform to my expectations, I would have been stopped or slowing on the paved shoulder and simply saying to myself "see I told ya". If he simply made the turn into the lane closest to him as his front wheels would indicate, then I would have simply continued on satisfied that this was a non-occurance. Getting bent out of shape over driver error or stupidity will simply serve to keep one in a constant state of agitation and undoubtedly lead to rider error at some point due to this distraction. When we ride, we assume the risk. To me assuming that risk is to expect the worst case scenario, ride accordingly and welcome the outcomes that are non-events. |
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SkootchNC
Advanced Member
603 Posts
[Mentor]
raleigh, north carolina
USA
Harley-Davidson
road glide
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Posted - 10/22/2009 : 7:59 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Night Train
quote:
Originally posted by Mikeydude
Well, my point really was that if you're in the left lane, you're not visually blocked by the front vehicle as shown in the second picture. and you can see them better. I see this all the time too, and I prefer to ride on the left. The encroachers from the right (driveways, side streets, etc...) tend to go into the right lane, and I can usually ride in a position where I have a vehicle blocking for me on the right. Also being in the left lane puts me in a position where if there are any trees or the like blocking someone on the right, I'm further out and can be seen sooner by them. And anyone on the left can see me a lot better, as well as I have room to move right, if I need to.
I understand that we all have our tactics, and if this is flawed on my part I'd like to understand it better.
I don't disagree with you, I was simply stating that in some areas you can be ticketed for driving in the left lane if you are not performing a passing maneuver. In this instance moving to the left lane would have provided a better opportunity for the truck to see the OP and would also provide the right lane as an additional escape route.
To be honest, I felt the OP handled this situation quite properly. He was aware of his surroundings and reacted accordingly. What surprised me was the degree of importance he placed on a situation that I would consider a normal occurance. In this situation I would have expected the truck to have cut out across both lanes without seeing me and I would have prepared for that. If he did indeed perform to my expectations, I would have been stopped or slowing on the paved shoulder and simply saying to myself "see I told ya". If he simply made the turn into the lane closest to him as his front wheels would indicate, then I would have simply continued on satisfied that this was a non-occurance. Getting bent out of shape over driver error or stupidity will simply serve to keep one in a constant state of agitation and undoubtedly lead to rider error at some point due to this distraction. When we ride, we assume the risk. To me assuming that risk is to expect the worst case scenario, ride accordingly and welcome the outcomes that are non-events.
Exactly.... I thought D.R. was in control, he recognized a danger, before there was an "incident" prepared for it, and was in position to brake, or swerve.
I can not see D.R.'s mirrors, so I can't advise whether he should have been in the left lane, or not.
I might have. Had I determined the left lane was "open" and would afford me greater visibility.
But, the white pick up might have been so focused on the sherriff's cruiser, that he wouldn't see me.
I grew up in a "keep right except to pass" state, and I avoid prolonged periods in the left lane. However in many states that has been replaced by the subjective "slower traffic stay right". Slower than what? I always think to myself. |
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scottrnelson
Advanced Member
5258 Posts
[Mentor]
Pleasanton, CA
USA
KTM
990 Adv, ST2, XR650L
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Posted - 10/22/2009 : 8:50 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by WSMeders
I am always worried the driver is going to take that for a "go ahead" and pull out in front of me. It's something I think about A LOT when I'm trying to get a drivers attention, or at least make myself visible, like at a 4-way stop with the car opposite me planning to make a left. Is my flashing them interpreted as a "Hello!" or a "you go first"?
Any thoughts on that type of communication between the "us" and "them?"
You'll notice that I have never recommended flashing the high beam once or twice then going back to low beam. I always recommend switching to high beam one or more times then STAYING ON HIGH BEAM until past the threat. I've never had anybody misinterpret that as a sign to pull out in front of me - so far. |
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WSMeders
Standard Member
105 Posts
OH, DC
USA
Yamaha
FZR600
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Posted - 10/22/2009 : 9:58 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by scottrnelson
quote:
You'll notice that I have never recommended flashing the high beam once or twice then going back to low beam. I always recommend switching to high beam one or more times then STAYING ON HIGH BEAM until past the threat. I've never had anybody misinterpret that as a sign to pull out in front of me - so far.
Ah ha! That makes sense then. I can see the reason for flashing once: While driving (on four wheels) I often find a motorcycle very noticeable when I catch the flashing of the headlights caused by bumps in the road. (You see the flicker of the light out of the corner of your eye in the rear-view-mirror, etc.)
And I can imagine the driver of a vehicle, after being attracted by the flash of the headlight, would just think to themselves that it was a bump in the road, rather than an intentional/signaling flash. Whether they perceive it as intentional or not, the intended result of them seeing the rider is achieved.
Thank you for the clarification. |
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Shadyrider
Junior Member
98 Posts
Hemphill, TX
USA
Honda
VLX 600 GL1800
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Posted - 10/22/2009 : 1:18 PM
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quote scottrnelson,
"I would get into a position where they could see my headlight, then I would switch from low beam to high beam. In the case of the first photo it would be visible between the two cars (but the driver might be concentrating on the Sheriff cruiser and not see it). Once the car ahead has passed the truck I would flash the high beam a couple of times, then leave it on and move back and forth across my lane a couple of times to be more visible."
Like Scott, I want to be as visible as possible.
My Shadow has a headlight modulator which can be activated via the horn button....Very effective in being seen.
My GL 1800 has high visability fog lights mounted very low, that turn off when the high beam is selected and switching from low/high////low/high really gets noticed..... even better than the modulator on a single headlight. |
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Hittrain
Starting Member
9 Posts
Akron, Ohio
USA
Harley-Davidson
Road King
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Posted - 10/22/2009 : 1:50 PM
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I LOVE the pictures; they really do show the kind of event that we all encounter everyday and how much more prepared we need to be then our caged brethren. My only point to the OP and maybe I'm underanalyzing this whole thing, but I ALWAYS assume that the truck can't (or doesn't see me), so I would have prepared accordingly, he's either going straight through (my assumption) or pulling out in front of me.
At that point I'd slow down enough to account for both, see what happens and react accordingly. I guess in my mind, this happens so much on every ride that it's a non-event; something that can be planned for, thus avoiding an "emergency" or sudden braking situation, just my two cents.
'Train |
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