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Night Train
 Moderator
1336 Posts
[Mentor]
Sydney, Nova Scotia
Canada
Harley-Davidson
03 Electra Glide Std
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 Posted - 11/11/2009 : 5:42 PM
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Multi-bike, I checked around a couple places that I found on the net with bikes like yours with similar problems and found these two suggestions. You may have already checked them out but if not they may point you in hopefully the right direction.
Suggestion #1: The first place I would start would be the fuses. The intermitent run problem sounds like one of the fuses getting really hot. You may find one or more of the fuses are corroded. As far as the rest it may all be related. Fuse box first everything needs good power.
Suggestion #2: You will find a RELAY suspended beneath the frame, close to where the fuel tank is bolted-down to the frame. (There should be one, single, relay ... mounted in a rubber holder ... suspended close to the signal-light flashing unit.)
Disconnect this relay.
Ignition cut-off safety features will be disabled.
If the bike runs:
Either the relay is bad ... or,
Some switch or wiring to the relay is stuck or shorted.
Caution / Warning:
This IS NOT a generic RELAY ... This RELAY is unlike other on the bike.
Substituting a NON-safety relay will cause safety related switching to be reversed
Hope this is of some help. |
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Multi-Bike
Junior Member
25 Posts
fort valley, GA.
USA
Honda
03 Goldwing, 05 dyna
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Posted - 11/14/2009 : 7:28 AM
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| More searching and more cleaning last night. Its not a fuse I do know that. I cleaned the corroded and tarnished connetions at the ignitor. The plugs at the ignitor were pretty tarnished so I dont know if that helped but Im sure it didnt hurt. Going on a ride today and the owner of this bike will be joining so I will be able to see how it acts. He is now telling me that he dont really recall it doing it after it gets good and hot, only when he first starts it and hasnt rode very far. He also seems to think he can turn the key off and back on and it will fire right back up. More information and a real test today. I will keep yall posted. |
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Niebor
Ex-Member
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Posted - 11/14/2009 : 10:28 AM
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Night Train's comments made me curious, I wasn't expecting a cutout relay in this vintage.
Indeed, his comment is on the mark, it is a Normally Closed relay, the opposite of what would be considered the "typical" relay. It appears the neutral switch is open when in neutral, the clutch and side-stand switches are closed when released and extended, respectively. The combination disables the starter if the bike is not in neutral, the stand is down, and the clutch not pulled. Rather creative approach. Don't count on such features if you jump on a Harley. If it's warm and you tap the starter while in gear, you'd best be ready to ride. 
Back to the bike dies. The drawing I reviewed is a year newer, and the drawing transitions in less than a clear manner. Here is what I pull from a quick review: The positive reference to the interlock relay is ignition positive. A failure to the positive side effectively disables the interlock feature. Of course an open there may well effect the rest of the ignition system, and lighting for that matter. One of two presumptions at this point. The issue is with the interlock system on the negitive side, OR the issue is on the positive side. A stray ground on side stand lead kills the bike immediately if it's in gear and the clutch not pulled. Removing the ground reference to the relay disables the feature. If the relay is to be removed, a jumper must be inserted across the start lead completing that path or the starter won't do it's thing. It appears the two parallel terminals are the coil, the offset pair is the starter. To make it easy, the relay coil wires are likely smaller than the starter path, the jumper goes across the bigger wires.
Of course, it could be an entirely different issue. I confess, I find solving technical much more enjoyable in the Lazyboy than the side of the highway. 
I guess I didn't realize your picking our brains to meet professional objectives. Not sure that's in keeping with the forum mantra, but I personally find it entertaining. |
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Multi-Bike
Junior Member
25 Posts
fort valley, GA.
USA
Honda
03 Goldwing, 05 dyna
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Posted - 11/14/2009 : 10:00 PM
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quote:
I guess I didn't realize your picking our brains to meet professional objectives. Not sure that's in keeping with the forum mantra, but I personally find it entertaining.
Neibor,
I am picking brains ONLY to help a friend with his bike. I am not a professional by no means nor do I make a dime off of it! I am not running a shop and asking for free help at all. |
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Multi-Bike
Junior Member
25 Posts
fort valley, GA.
USA
Honda
03 Goldwing, 05 dyna
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Posted - 11/15/2009 : 6:54 AM
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| Went on a 150 mile ride yesterday and the bike died twice in the first 10 miles and never did again. Still havent got it figured out. |
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Night Train
Moderator
1336 Posts
[Mentor]
Sydney, Nova Scotia
Canada
Harley-Davidson
03 Electra Glide Std
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Posted - 11/15/2009 : 8:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Multi-Bike
Went on a 150 mile ride yesterday and the bike died twice in the first 10 miles and never did again. Still havent got it figured out.
That is interesting. When it died, how easy was it to restart? How soon after restarting did it die the second time? Was there anything such as bumps or potholes that could have jiggled the wiring harness before it died? If not perhaps there is something to consider besides electrical. If the bike ran well for the remainder of the ride, one can only conclude that the problem is an extremely minor one but certainly be frustrating in locating. |
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Niebor
Ex-Member
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Posted - 11/15/2009 : 10:08 AM
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Does this bike by any chance have a vacuum fuel petcock? Perhaps a crack or little hunky in the vacuum line?
You say it dies abruptly, like ignition. Fuel starvation generally sputters a bit. Grasping at straws...
Assuming your satisfied everything is remaining powered up. I'd go back to ignition primary. You have verified spark while it's dead? If so, did the spark appear to be properly timed?
If spark appears out of time or intermittent, check the crank pickup coil. A little metal on that sensor can certainly make it erratic. Make sure the cable jacket from the pickup coil to the engine controller is not damaged and those connections are tight. Be thorough, further diagnostic in this area requires fancy toys, like an oscilloscope. |
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Multi-Bike
Junior Member
25 Posts
fort valley, GA.
USA
Honda
03 Goldwing, 05 dyna
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Posted - 11/15/2009 : 12:46 PM
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| Its not gas related as far as I can tell cause it just dies It does not spit or sputter like running out of gas or sucking air. Everything is staying powered up like lights, dash, and starter. The two times it died on the ride yesterday it took it a few minutes to start and I dont know if its coincidental or not but the first time we took the seat off and tapped or bumped on and around the ignitor, rectifier, fuse box area and it starts then. The second time I just tapped around the side cover again and it started, but that could be just coincidental. I ask earlier with no answer but what does the ignitor do? I dont know if it is the ignitor or not but I believe that is a CDI box which are usually the brains. Maybe? Maybe not? |
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gymnast
Moderator
2814 Posts
[Mentor]
Meridian, Idaho
USA
Harley-Davidson
Sportster Sport
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Posted - 11/15/2009 : 12:57 PM
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| Google "ignition, ignitor coil" Commonly known as "the coil", failure or problems, evident when hot, are a reason to replace. |
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Multi-Bike
Junior Member
25 Posts
fort valley, GA.
USA
Honda
03 Goldwing, 05 dyna
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Posted - 11/15/2009 : 3:16 PM
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| As mentioned earlier, the coils have been replaced and its not really a "HOT" issue. It seems to be more when just starting off although it dont take long to get it up to operating temp, yesterday after the first 10 miles it never happened again. |
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Niebor
Ex-Member
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Posted - 11/15/2009 : 3:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Multi-Bike
I dont know if its coincidental or not but the first time we took the seat off and tapped or bumped on and around the ignitor, rectifier, fuse box area and it starts then. The second time I just tapped around the side cover again and it started, I ask earlier with no answer but what does the ignitor do? I dont know if it is the ignitor or not but I believe that is a CDI box which are usually the brains. Maybe? Maybe not?
I guess I'm leaning away from the coil. You can usually attribute intermittant behavior to either higher temperatures or moisture. I'm not hearing that.
I am hearing two for two taps, thumps, whatever, that resulted in restart were in the same area. Not quite a pattern, but clearly a hint. I'm thinking maybe you missed one?
Hint: Often when a wire fails, the insulation remains intact. Lightly tug on a length, watch for any movement, especially at connectors and bends. Lose any corrosion, retention the female connector to make a nice tight connection. Add a little no-ox if available, if not Vaseline will do. Position all connections so that any moisture that does sneak in, drains immediately. |
Edited by - Niebor on 11/15/2009 3:25 PM |
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