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aidanspa
 Advanced Member
1458 Posts
[Mentor]
Omaha, NE
USA
Harley-Davidson
Heritage Softail
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 Posted - 11/25/2008 : 8:45 PM
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We have James' permission to create this new thread for interested members to discuss existing insurance industry issues affecting motorcycle safety, and to share ideas and possible plans of action to effect positive change in motorcycle safety through education of the insurance industry.
James has indicated that this effort will have his direct support & involvement, as education is the primary stated purpose of this site.
Thanks James!
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etexKat
 New Member
22 Posts
Jacksonville, Texas
USA
Honda
250 Rebel
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Posted - 11/26/2008 : 2:11 PM
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Please clarify our objective. How can I help? I've been writing insurance for a major carrier for over 15 years. Insurance companies rate for the risk. The best rates will go to riders over 25, with clean records, a motorcycle safety course(instructors get a higher discount), and membership in one of the safety oriented riding clubs. This will apply to most stock bikes. The larger sport bikes will cost a bit more than the cruisers but not much for this type rider. We've just begun discounting for ABS and/or air bags.
If the rider is 19, has a speed cite or accident on record and is buying a big sport bike, he better have some mighty deep pockets. I just quoted a young man $337.00 per month and you should have seen his expression  . He said he couldn't afford that and the bike, too. This, hopefully, keeps some knotheads off the street. The fine for driving with no insurance is pretty hefty.
Here in Texas, you don't need the M endorsement to buy a bike nor get insurance. ( When I bought my Rebel, the dealership didn't ask for proof of insurance even though it is financed.)
IMO, insurers could start with a higher rate and then give deeper discounts for safety courses and affilliations. Right now, they provide an additional $500 to your medical or PIP coverage if you have an accident and are wearing a D.O.T. approved helmet; perhaps this could be increased as an incentive.
Not sure if this is where you're going, but maybe it's a starting place.
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Niebor
Ex-Member
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Posted - 11/26/2008 : 3:44 PM
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I can safely state that If you crash, and really bang up an expensive Harley, they double your rates. For how long, I do not know.  |
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aidanspa
Advanced Member
1458 Posts
[Mentor]
Omaha, NE
USA
Harley-Davidson
Heritage Softail
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Posted - 11/26/2008 : 4:10 PM
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etexKat, thanks for your input.
You are on the right track. We're exploring ways of applying pressure on corporate entities, in this case the insurance industry, to become more heavily involved in improving motorcycle safety efforts. Whether that comes from developing and administrating stricter, more objective skills testing methodology, or perhaps offering better rates as you mentioned.
Quote from James:
quote:
The insurance industry has a vested interest in safety and might be encouraged to provide preferential rates to motorcyclists who DEMONSTRATE skills and training (through tests administered by credentialed third-party examiners) that are far more onerous than the trivial tests administered by the MSF. Indeed, those same credentialed examiners might become a required replacement for the conflicted MSF RiderCoach's who do the tests now.
And, of course, there remains the question of who would be the source of and administration of those credentials (now THAT function for members of this site has great appeal to me.)
This is just a start, and while this topic may take a dozen different directions, hopefully it will lead to some positive action steps. |
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Texasphotographer
Advanced Member
827 Posts
[Mentor]
Copperas Cove, Texas
USA
Honda
2006 GL1800 Trike
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Posted - 11/26/2008 : 4:31 PM
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Aidanspa, Thank you for taking on any project to promote motorcycle safety or make others more aware that not all people on the road or highways ride or drive four wheels. So little is done (that I am aware of) to make drivers aware of motorcyclists. It is almost rare to see a cage driver that does not have a cell phone stuck to his/more often her ear and not paying attention to the situation around them.
Recently, there was a very short-lived ad on TV showing a driver about ready to turn left and not seeing a motorcyclist driving straight. Then it showed the driver turning left and the motorcycle hitting the cage. This, was an excellent message to make drivers a bit more aware of motorcyclists, but it stayed on the air only a couple of weeks.
etexcat, What a fantastic answer. It is certain you know your business. I pay $138. annually for minimum motorcycle liability and $500.00 deductible. My oldest granddaughters boy friend age 18 just got a Hayabusa and I was trying to help him get motorcycle insurance. At that time, he had not attended the MSF course and I was shocked at the monthly premium we were quoted.
Kinda makes it better to be 70 (not too many perks for us at this age)
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burtsr
Junior Member
88 Posts
Chicago, IL
USA
Honda
2006 Gold Wing
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Posted - 11/26/2008 : 8:16 PM
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It seems to me that we are always quick to blame the 'inexperienced' or 'untrained' rider. As a LEO and very active touring motorcyclist, I have also noticed a large number of 'experienced' drivers are having accidents.
I think it's the familiarity breads contempt syndrome.
I always teach in my courses that my Goldwing's biggest features (quiet, smooth, powerful, cruse control etc.) is also it's biggest liability. After a couple hundred miles it's very easy to forget you are on TWO wheels going 70+mph.
How many guys (including me) are playing the their GPS, cell, radio, cb while driving. Plus, at 60+ years of age, us experienced riders reflexes are not what they used to be.
So lets not just blame the accidents on the new kids on the block.
Burt
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Texasphotographer
Advanced Member
827 Posts
[Mentor]
Copperas Cove, Texas
USA
Honda
2006 GL1800 Trike
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Posted - 11/26/2008 : 9:00 PM
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I think this thread (as many thread do) has taken a turn away from the primary focus and that is how to make more people aware of motorcyclists and ultimately, how to reduce accidents. That I believe is why James started and continues this site.
Maybe I pointed a finger at cage drivers with cell phones and if I did, I led the topic astray and I do apologize. However, this is a noble endeavor on aidanspa's part and more than worthy of constructive comments.
Thanks,
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Night Train
Moderator
1336 Posts
[Mentor]
Sydney, Nova Scotia
Canada
Harley-Davidson
03 Electra Glide Std
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Posted - 11/27/2008 : 5:34 AM
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In respect to the Insurance Industry, I personally believe that there are a number of issues that they could be addressing that would not only improve motorcycle safety but also their profit margin. I know most of us don't give a moment's thought to Insurance Companies profits, however, when approaching such an Industry, it is an easier sell if we can show that by adopting our recommendations, it will not only serve to make our highways and biways safer but also provide them with a substantial return on their investment. With some people we will be dealing with, injuries and death, are measured only in monetary terms.
Some of these issues, in general terms, are as follows;
1. Underwriting - Rates appear to be calculated on age, gender, cc size of the motorcycle, years licensed, along with accident and conviction history.
There are holes in this process that could be addressed.
I can't think of any change in the age aspect. The stats pretty much speak for themselves in this regard. As well in relation to the gender of the insured, stats are appearing to narrow the gender gap and in some areas, female riders/drivers no longer enjoy lower insurance rates than their male counterparts.
I take issue with the cc size of the motorcycle engine. I personally feel it should be based on horsepower. Cubic centimeters or cubic inches don't reflect accurately the performance capabilities of the machine.
In respect to number of years licensed, this by itself is next to useless in determining risk. A person, under the present system, could have gotten their license at age 16, rode for a year and kept their motorcycle endorsement on their license, then 40 years later decide to get a bike. Now they can claim they have been licensed for that 40 years. The insurance application should reflect not only number of years licensed but also number of years of actual riding along with an approximate number of miles ridden and number and models of motorcycles owned.
In my opinion, this would provide the underwriter with a clearer picture of the overall risk assessment of the applicant.
Accident and conviction history should at least look beyond the current 3 to 5 year period preceding the application. Five years accident free is one thing, 25, 30, or 40 years actually riding accident free is quite another. As well, the conviction rate over a longer period will paint a clearer picture of the overall risk assessement of the applicant.
Helmet use and safety gear should also be questioned on the application. A Helmet Rider or Endorsement, at the very least should be a prime consideration regardless of jurisdictional legislation. A discount should be provided for helmet use or a surcharge applied for those that do not wear helmets.
2. Mandatory Coverage with realistic Minimum Limits - We as well as the Insurance Industry should be lobbying for all States to legislate mandatory insurance coverage for all vehicles and have proof of insurance in order to register a vehicle.
Mandatory Insurance will ensure that all motorists are adequately protected. This will relieve a good deal of the State's medical expenses and increase premium revenue for the Insurance Industry. With mandatory insurance, the risk of that particular State is spread amongst the operators of all motor vehicles and not just the percentage that carry insurance thereby hopefully resulting in cheaper premiums across the board.
Realistic minimum limits are also required. In today's world, a minimum of $1,000,000.00 liability coverage is not unreasonable. As well, Section B, Accident Benefits should be mandatory to cover the rider/driver and passengers with coverage for medical payments, hospital expenses, ambulance, medical equipment, drugs, rehabilitation, disability, and death benefits regardless of fault.
3. Education and Training - I don`t know to what extent the Insurance Industry is involved with Motorcycle Training but I would think that they should have an active role in financially supporting such programs, as well as monitoring the quality and substance of these training programs. They could as well accumulate statistical information from their claims reports relating to the success of such courses. Most Insurers, to my knowledge, provide some premium relief to Insureds who have successfully completed a Motorcycle Safety Course. This could, in my opinion, be expanded to include experienced riders who take advanced safety courses as well. Any Insurance that would be applicable on the Highway should also extend to the use of the motorcycle while taking a safety training course.
Public service announcements funded by the Insurance Industry should also contain motorcycle safety related material similar to that as produced in the UK`s THINK program. Policy renewals for all auto policies should also include a Safety Brochure highlighting general basic safety procedures and information on motorcycle awareness and safety.
4. Innovative Coverages - This particular suggestion has nothing to do with motorcycle safety as such but is something I think warrants consideration as a customer. In respect to people who own multiple vehicles and are the only operator, there should be no need to carry Liability and Accident Benefits coverage on each vehicle. A rider or driver policy should be available to cover the operator on any of the vehicles he or she is operating at the time.
These are a few of my thoughts on the matter. I may be all wet in some aspects but hopefully I have managed to present at least something for consideration or discussion.
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rioguy
Ex-Member
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Posted - 11/27/2008 : 6:35 AM
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It feels good to recommend what the insurance companies should do. But I thought riders were supposed to be independent and take responsibility for our own actions.
On a hypermiling forum I'm on, we submitted an article to a wire service to counteract the myths being submitted by AAA. This article was published by many newspapers throughout the country. The cost is $700 for 400 words. The article spawned other articles written by local reporters who became interested in hypermiling. I was able to get a huge front page spread in the Denver Post as a result of it.
You can see an article spawned by the original article here: http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_9822065
I'd suggest any article be published in May when many new riders are starting out. Rather than duplicate what has been written before, I'd suggest focusing on a critical skill that isn't generally addressed in the media. This means staying away from topics such as speeding and alcohol use. These people will ignore any article.
Those who know me know my pet topic is counter-steering. That would be my first choice. But another topic might be something like starting out with an appropriate size bike. James is focused on proper braking techniques. Perhaps we could talk about cars leaving extra space behind riders.
We could each submit the article to our individual insurance companies and ask that it be emailed to members.
Considering the number of members we have, it might not be unreasonable to have a separate donate button and allow people to contribute to publishing these articles. It might be possible to have a series of 3 or 4.
In the article, reference could be made to this site and perhaps we would get new active members.
We could also all submit the article to our local newspapers and get some free coverage.
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Night Train
Moderator
1336 Posts
[Mentor]
Sydney, Nova Scotia
Canada
Harley-Davidson
03 Electra Glide Std
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Posted - 11/27/2008 : 9:58 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by rioguy
It feels good to recommend what the insurance companies should do. But I thought riders were supposed to be independent and take responsibility for our own actions.
I think that what we are trying to accomplish here is exactly a matter of riders being independent and taking responsiblity for our own actions. Insurance is written for the most part by non-riders, as is most legislation relating to our sport. I feel that if we are to expect changes for the betterment of our safety and responsible enjoyment of our sport, it is up to us as independent riders to have a say in what we expect from the people who are quite prepared to take our money for Insurance Premiums and our tax dollars to adminster all the rules they wish us to live by. If standing up to the Corporate World and Government isn't being independent then I don't know what is. If taking action to make things more equitable and safer, isn't taking responsibilty for our own actions, then I clearly misunderstand the definition of the word "responsible" as well. |
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rioguy
Ex-Member
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Posted - 11/27/2008 : 10:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Night Train
quote:
Originally posted by rioguy
It feels good to recommend what the insurance companies should do. But I thought riders were supposed to be independent and take responsibility for our own actions.
I think that what we are trying to accomplish here is exactly a matter of riders being independent and taking responsiblity for our own actions. Insurance is written for the most part by non-riders, as is most legislation relating to our sport. I feel that if we are to expect changes for the betterment of our safety and responsible enjoyment of our sport, it is up to us as independent riders to have a say in what we expect from the people who are quite prepared to take our money for Insurance Premiums and our tax dollars to adminster all the rules they wish us to live by. If standing up to the Corporate World and Government isn't being independent then I don't know what is. If taking action to make things more equitable and safer, isn't taking responsibilty for our own actions, then I clearly misunderstand the definition of the word "responsible" as well.
Night Train,
I thought your ideas were very good. My thoughts weren't a response to those. They were meant as something additional we could do.
Rioguy |
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James R. Davis
Administrator
14935 Posts
[Mentor]
Houston, TX
USA
Honda
GoldWing 1500
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Posted - 11/27/2008 : 10:14 AM
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As most of you have noticed, this thread has become the first thread in a new forum so that the various issues that seem to be of interest here can be explored in their own focused thread.
In other words, you need not 'hijack' this thread in order to pursue a related interest. Instead, just create a new topic within this forum. |
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gymnast
Moderator
2814 Posts
[Mentor]
Meridian, Idaho
USA
Harley-Davidson
Sportster Sport
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Posted - 11/27/2008 : 10:28 AM
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I have been looking at the posts on this thread and see some ideas that reflect the thought that insurance companies have a "responsibility" to take a "humanitarian interest" in motorcycle safety. Public relations wise I am sure that they would not actively discourage that idea, however, "The Insurance Business" is a business run by businessmen who would not last 5 minutes if they approached their business as anything but a business. The insurance industry is highly regulated and must conform with both state and federal laws in the way it develops and markets it's various products. At the end of the day, it must produce a profit for the ownership, or maintain a competitive position that does not suffer losses that effecting competitiveness if a mutual company. The insurance industry sells a product which essentially pools risk and sells "shares" in the risk.
As pointed out by Night Train, actuaries determine risk (though laws "forbidding various types of discrimination" within the areas where they sell their products sometimes interferes with the realities of their tasks0. Insurance companies insure themselves through reinsurance products and the costs are eventually passed to the consumer as part of the premium. The concept of "pooling the risk" is at the heart if the insurance business. Rates are determined by the the losses of pool, commissions, administrative costs and salaries and other factors such as advertising costs. The makeup of the pool, can be controlled in such a way as to affect risk. A pool that allows a 16 year old licensed owner of a 1400cc sport bike to be a member is likely to have a slightly different business model than a company that will not insure your motorcycle unless you are already insuring your car with them. Mandatory insurance laws where regulations force the companies to "take all comers" result in high rates and on occasion companies make the choice to abandon lines of insurance or geographic areas where the actuarial indications are unfavorable.
At one time, in the late 1960s universal no fault insurance was held to be the solution to ever higher motor vehicle insurance rates. The thinking was that (greatly simplified) the rates could be lowered by about one-third across the board if the litigation costs of liability claims were eliminated and would thus greatly reduce the administrative costs of doing business. Proponents of "no fault" (there was never any true no-fault insurance, by the way) were finally successful in Massachusetts, and a few other states. Mandatory no fault for motorcycles was implemented in Maryland and Kentucky. The effect in Massachusetts was to result in the highest insurance rates in the nation. Maryland and Kentucky's motorcycle insurance rates virtually destroyed dealers sales while they were under mandatory no fault (see back issues of "Motorcycle Dealer News" for the mid 1960s for details).
In my opinion, if the insurance industry (or a so inclined company) becomes actively or programmaticly involved in "things motorcycle safety" it will be as a result of a business decision based on increasing profits or improving their competitive position in the industry. Motorcycle crashes are inefficiencies that are the basis of the products that insurance companies market. Greater efficiency, from a safety standpoint means fewer crashes and possibly a reduced cost for the insurance product. It does not necessarily translate to a good business model for companies whose success and profit depends on premium cash flow. I do not intend the above to be taken as a negative opinion of the insurance industry, but a realistic one.
A few thoughts. |
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gymnast
Moderator
2814 Posts
[Mentor]
Meridian, Idaho
USA
Harley-Davidson
Sportster Sport
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Posted - 11/27/2008 : 10:41 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Night Train
quote:
Originally posted by rioguy
It feels good to recommend what the insurance companies should do. But I thought riders were supposed to be independent and take responsibility for our own actions.
I think that what we are trying to accomplish here is exactly a matter of riders being independent and taking responsiblity for our own actions. Insurance is written for the most part by non-riders, as is most legislation relating to our sport. I feel that if we are to expect changes for the betterment of our safety and responsible enjoyment of our sport, it is up to us as independent riders to have a say in what we expect from the people who are quite prepared to take our money for Insurance Premiums and our tax dollars to adminster all the rules they wish us to live by. If standing up to the Corporate World and Government isn't being independent then I don't know what is. If taking action to make things more equitable and safer, isn't taking responsibilty for our own actions, then I clearly misunderstand the definition of the word "responsible" as well.
For what it's worth, I purposely never refer to riding a licensed motorcycle in traffic on public roads as a "sport". A motorcycle is a motor vehicle and one of the quickest ways to lose our rights to use the road would be for people to think that our use of motorcycles is some sort of "sport" performed on the public roadways in traffic. An example of a "sport" is racing motorcycles on an off-road facility Or an observed trials event. 2 cents worth. |
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Night Train
Moderator
1336 Posts
[Mentor]
Sydney, Nova Scotia
Canada
Harley-Davidson
03 Electra Glide Std
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Posted - 11/27/2008 : 1:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gymnast
For what it's worth, I purposely never refer to riding a licensed motorcycle in traffic on public roads as a "sport". A motorcycle is a motor vehicle and one of the quickest ways to lose our rights to use the road would be for people to think that our use of motorcycles is some sort of "sport" performed on the public roadways in traffic. An example of a "sport" is racing motorcycles on an off-road facility Or an observed trials event. 2 cents worth.
I agree wholeheartedly, the use of the word "sport" was indeed inappropriate. When I think motorcycling personally, I consider it a lifestyle but it is many things to many people. In an effort to put a somewhat uniform label on what we do, I chose the term sport perhaps because it is primarily a recreational activity. Your point is well made and any official correspondence relating to our activity as "sport" could indeed send a negative message. |
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Night Train
Moderator
1336 Posts
[Mentor]
Sydney, Nova Scotia
Canada
Harley-Davidson
03 Electra Glide Std
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Posted - 11/27/2008 : 1:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by rioguy
quote:
Originally posted by Night Train
quote:
Originally posted by rioguy
It feels good to recommend what the insurance companies should do. But I thought riders were supposed to be independent and take responsibility for our own actions.
I think that what we are trying to accomplish here is exactly a matter of riders being independent and taking responsiblity for our own actions. Insurance is written for the most part by non-riders, as is most legislation relating to our sport. I feel that if we are to expect changes for the betterment of our safety and responsible enjoyment of our sport, it is up to us as independent riders to have a say in what we expect from the people who are quite prepared to take our money for Insurance Premiums and our tax dollars to adminster all the rules they wish us to live by. If standing up to the Corporate World and Government isn't being independent then I don't know what is. If taking action to make things more equitable and safer, isn't taking responsibilty for our own actions, then I clearly misunderstand the definition of the word "responsible" as well.
Night Train,
I thought your ideas were very good. My thoughts weren't a response to those. They were meant as something additional we could do.
Rioguy
Rioguy,
My comment only related to the quoted text of your post, which obviously I misinterpreted. I like the idea you presented about the article and perhaps that should be a separate thread in this forum as well. That alone could take some discussion and input. From what I can see, there will be a number of issues considered and James has given us the forum in which to do it in a manner that those who have the expertise and interest in a particular aspect can get involved without having to deal with issues they are not so inclined to encompass. Basically we can get involved in those parts of the project where we feel comfortable. This should hopefully, induce a wider spectrum of participation and make the whole process more organized than what can be accomplished in a single thread. I think Aidanspa has started the wheels rolling on something that can be very positive for all of us. James has applied the grease to wheel so that it will move more easily. It is up to the rest of us to provide the inertia to keep the wheel rolling. |
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aidanspa
Advanced Member
1458 Posts
[Mentor]
Omaha, NE
USA
Harley-Davidson
Heritage Softail
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Posted - 11/28/2008 : 10:32 AM
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Wow, a guy misses a day or two on this forum & I barely recognize it  .
All the input thus far has been excellent, very well considered & presented, just as I knew it would be.
So, what if we take these ideas, such as Underwriting for specific demonstrated skill sets, or Mandatory Coverage, or Education and Training, and decide which ONE would likely have the greatest positive impact on motorcycle safety, if it was implemented immediately.
Then, with the continued valuable input from all here, determine how that idea can be presented to the insurance industry as a PROFITABLE business venture.
In other words, what's our best idea that has a reasonable chance of being viewed by insurers as a good ROI?
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Texasphotographer
Advanced Member
827 Posts
[Mentor]
Copperas Cove, Texas
USA
Honda
2006 GL1800 Trike
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Posted - 11/29/2008 : 5:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by aidanspa
In other words, what's our best idea that has a reasonable chance of being viewed by insurers as a good ROI?
We have all basically said the same thing. We as a group (motorcyclists) have to prove to insurers that we are a safe group. Gosh knows, the $138 I pay a year is not a lot of money to have the coverage on my bike. I chose $500 deductible and no personal injury which keeps my rates down. As I have had the MSF course and a good driving record I and every other responsible (safe) vehicle operator is rewarded by sensible rates. I wish the younger riders rates were not so high, but unfortunately, their (lumping all of them together) driving record requires the insurance industry to be substantially more concerned about ROI in their case.
My daughter worked for the Hartford Group until they closed the office in Fort Lauderdale. Her job was to evaluate certain risk factors in group health insurance. We talked today about this topic and she told me thousands of cases are studied to determine specific rates for each category of insured. I was pretty sure of that, but having her reinforce my thoughts made me realize insurers are not going to respond to a PR campaign, but how safe each age bracket of driver/rider is to determine insurance rates. |
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House_of_Dexter
Standard Member
167 Posts
Richardson, Tx
USA
Kawasaki
2007 Ex-500
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Posted - 12/11/2008 : 9:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by gymnast
I have been looking at the posts on this thread and see some ideas that reflect the thought that insurance companies have a "responsibility" to take a "humanitarian interest" in motorcycle safety. Public relations wise I am sure that they would not actively discourage that idea, however, "The Insurance Business" is a business run by businessmen who would not last 5 minutes if they approached their business as anything but a business. The insurance industry is highly regulated and must conform with both state and federal laws in the way it develops and markets it's various products. At the end of the day, it must produce a profit for the ownership, or maintain a competitive position that does not suffer losses that effecting competitiveness if a mutual company. The insurance industry sells a product which essentially pools risk and sells "shares" in the risk.
As pointed out by Night Train, actuaries determine risk (though laws "forbidding various types of discrimination" within the areas where they sell their products sometimes interferes with the realities of their tasks0. Insurance companies insure themselves through reinsurance products and the costs are eventually passed to the consumer as part of the premium. The concept of "pooling the risk" is at the heart if the insurance business. Rates are determined by the the losses of pool, commissions, administrative costs and salaries and other factors such as advertising costs. The makeup of the pool, can be controlled in such a way as to affect risk. A pool that allows a 16 year old licensed owner of a 1400cc sport bike to be a member is likely to have a slightly different business model than a company that will not insure your motorcycle unless you are already insuring your car with them. Mandatory insurance laws where regulations force the companies to "take all comers" result in high rates and on occasion companies make the choice to abandon lines of insurance or geographic areas where the actuarial indications are unfavorable.
At one time, in the late 1960s universal no fault insurance was held to be the solution to ever higher motor vehicle insurance rates. The thinking was that (greatly simplified) the rates could be lowered by about one-third across the board if the litigation costs of liability claims were eliminated and would thus greatly reduce the administrative costs of doing business. Proponents of "no fault" (there was never any true no-fault insurance, by the way) were finally successful in Massachusetts, and a few other states. Mandatory no fault for motorcycles was implemented in Maryland and Kentucky. The effect in Massachusetts was to result in the highest insurance rates in the nation. Maryland and Kentucky's motorcycle insurance rates virtually destroyed dealers sales while they were under mandatory no fault (see back issues of "Motorcycle Dealer News" for the mid 1960s for details).
In my opinion, if the insurance industry (or a so inclined company) becomes actively or programmaticly involved in "things motorcycle safety" it will be as a result of a business decision based on increasing profits or improving their competitive position in the industry. Motorcycle crashes are inefficiencies that are the basis of the products that insurance companies market. Greater efficiency, from a safety standpoint means fewer crashes and possibly a reduced cost for the insurance product. It does not necessarily translate to a good business model for companies whose success and profit depends on premium cash flow. I do not intend the above to be taken as a negative opinion of the insurance industry, but a realistic one.
A few thoughts.
Wow...very good response how insurance works in a nutshell(Did you sell insurance?)...and some of the unknown side effects of legislation causes to rates...Like mandatory insurance causing rates to increase because insurance companies are required to insure uninsurables or the effects of No Fault Insurance on rates...(I wonder if there is a link on No Fault Ins. and number of accidents(caused by more risk taking, because you will not be held accountable).)
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aidanspa
Advanced Member
1458 Posts
[Mentor]
Omaha, NE
USA
Harley-Davidson
Heritage Softail
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Posted - 12/24/2008 : 8:24 PM
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While we continue to discuss various ways of influencing the MSF/MIC via the insurance industry, it has occurred to me that we haven't yet spent any time discussing how we might best share our ideas with an industry this huge and diversified. I mean, where do you start knocking doors?
It seems to me that our best avenue of approach may be with the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) and the Highway Loss Data Institute. For those not familiar:
quote:
The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety is an independent, nonprofit, scientific, and educational organization dedicated to reducing the losses deaths, injuries, and property damage from crashes on the nation's highways.
The Highway Loss Data Institute shares and supports this mission through scientific studies of insurance data representing the human and economic losses resulting from the ownership and operation of different types of vehicles and by publishing insurance loss results by vehicle make and model.
Both organizations are wholly supported by auto insurers. (Emphasis added)
These organizations are already in place, have the same goals regarding safety as we do, are well established and very well funded with insurance industry dollars, and have earned enormous respect and clout.
Bells starting ringing when gymnast mentioned Dr. Bill Haddon and the modern scientific approach he introduced as President of IIHS, and then as first head of the NHTSA.
Any thoughts? |
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gymnast
Moderator
2814 Posts
[Mentor]
Meridian, Idaho
USA
Harley-Davidson
Sportster Sport
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Posted - 12/24/2008 : 8:50 PM
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On this Christmas Eve, a gift of food for thought, authored by William Haddon. Don't let the title fool you for it is a work of great importance when applied to the conceptual understanding of improving motorcycle safety.
Published in 1970 in the American Journal of Public health as "an opinion", or editorial, in this this piece you will come to find some of the essence of what made Haddon such a pivotal figure in the annals of trauma prevention of all kinds.
"On the Escape of Tigers: An Ecologic Note" By William Haddon
http://www.ajph.org/cgi/reprint/60/12/2229-b |
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