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SkootchNC
 Senior Member
327 Posts
[Mentor]
raleigh, north carolina
USA
Harley-Davidson
road glide
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 Posted - 10/08/2009 : 9:07 AM
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Kinningham
EXCELLENT videos of slow speed parking lot practice. KUDOS to your efforts, and dedication
Frank |
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rayg50
Senior Member
497 Posts
[Mentor]
NYC, NY
USA
Honda
Shadow Spirit 750DC
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Posted - 10/09/2009 : 8:54 AM
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First, thank you for sharing the videos and the diagrams, all are very nice.
How much time would you estimate you invested in practice to achieve these results? This is purely curiosity and I hope no envy shows in the question. 
In your sweep turn chicken turn diagram you seem to alternate 18' U turns with about 11' U turns. Am I accurately interpreting the diagram?
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kinningham
Ex-Member
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Posted - 10/09/2009 : 10:57 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by rayg50
How much time would you estimate you invested in practice to achieve these results? This is purely curiosity and I hope no envy shows in the question.
The short answer is I've spent several hundred hours in the parking lot since my first ride in June '08. After the first few weeks I was averaging 2 hours of moving time daily divided into several shorter sessions, typically 30-40 minute rides. Half that has been PLP.
If you tough out a couple weeks focused on drills and exercises you'll start to notice progress. That progress can be just as addictive as riding around. Once you get hooked on skills the practice sessions are enjoyable, not a chore.
My youtube videos http://www.youtube.com/user/motormanmagoo include the very first ride and a disorganized collection of practice session videos from June '08 to the present. The ONLY unusual thing about my riding that I can see is I spend more time practicing than most riders. I wish my practice habits were more common so there would be discussions of practice fine points to join.quote:
In your sweep turn chicken turn diagram you seem to alternate 18' U turns with about 11' U turns. Am I accurately interpreting the diagram?
Mr. D questioned how tight I could Uturn so I made a video yesterday of that with the big bike. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Yba...channel_page The first batch of turns are in 1st gear at idle speed with some minimal breaking to control entry speed. There might be some 11 footers. Then there are some turns a little faster, in 2nd gear, and they appear to be a couple feet wider. (I'm pretty certain I could turn the smaller klx140 on or inside the parking lines (9'), which I'll try when it stops raining.) So the drawing you refer to shows the turns more narrow than I can do them in 2nd gear by a couple of feet. I'll redraw that eventually.
There still isn't anyone to hold the camera so here is the best video of the hourglass weave I've been able to make so far. In both the big weave patterns I'm in 2nd gear, no clutch and sometimes need to apply a little brake so I'm not too fast entering the turns. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8Xo...channel_page |
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James R. Davis
Administrator
14193 Posts
[Mentor]
Houston, TX
USA
Honda
GoldWing 1500
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Posted - 10/09/2009 : 11:46 AM
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I'm extremely impressed. Some of those turns looked awfully close to 10 feet in diameter and are BY FAR tighter than I can make such turns.
You ride a bike with an unusually short wheelbase, which allows you such feats, but that in no way detracts from the skill you demonstrate. Bravo!
Now, let's go back to the thread topic of 'Counter steering', which you were NOT demonstrating.
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RobBunch
Junior Member
59 Posts
Colorado Springs, CO
USA
Honda
ST1300A
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Posted - 10/09/2009 : 8:01 PM
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Nice job...
Nice, smooth, tight turns I agree come from lots of practice. Part of that practice is throttle control, even in the higher gear. My bike is known to not have the smoothest response. There are aftermarket fixes, but I just do the best I can.
Have to agree with James after looking at the video. The "countersteer" called out in the video does not appear to be countersteering as I know it. I liken what we see there as being the "dip" that Motorman uses as a tight turn technique, but it is still a slow-speed turn of the bars, not the outward press of a countersteer. |
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RickRussellTX
New Member
24 Posts
Hawthorne, CA
USA
Honda
CN250
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Posted - 10/17/2009 : 1:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by kinningham
I read the article through. The part that doesn't work for me is saying that shifting body weight is not very important.
I will add only two things.
If you think that shifting body weight is very important, explain this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTO2s7wyrFs
That guy rides better than I ever, ever will, and he doesn't move his body one inch relative to his bike.
On the other hand, if you think that shifting body weight is not very important, explain this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSr5_beIk0w
Most of the action in that video takes place with the front wheel off the ground, yet still they can turn the bikes :-)
Long story short, I don't think that most riding situations benefit from body lean. Special situations -- stunting definitely, racing sometimes. If body lean can make you 2% faster around turns, then you use it in a race, regardless of whether it's the "safest" thing to do. But if you watch MotoGP, you'll see that actual body leaning is not very dramatic.
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gsxr rider
Starting Member
9 Posts
Naha, Okinawa
Japan
Suzuki
GSXR-750 / ST 250
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Posted - 11/10/2009 : 9:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kinningham
I read the article through. The part that doesn't work for me is saying that shifting body weight is not very important. There may be some arcane physics reason for saying that but in practice how I use my weight, forward and back and side to side, makes a noticable difference in how effectively I can maneuver. All the videos I watch of elite caliber riders maneuvering agressively shows them moving around on the bike a lot. Those motions are not just random nervous reactions to the motion of the bike.
Hello, Many riders are mistaken about what body steering does/does not do to influence the motorcycle. As an advocated rider, nothing more distingueshes a riders skill level, than the ability for him/her to turn the motorcycle. counter steering is the only physical / technical technique of getting a motorcycle turned. Nothing else influences the direction of a motorcycle more so than the pressure we enact on the handlebars. As a demo of "Body-Steering" vice handlebar input, can be viewed at http://www.superbikeschool.com/mach...-machine.php This can clearly demonstrate the difference and influence of what BODY STEERING vs. COUNTER STEERING does.
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